School hits back at cruelty claims

A SCHOOL in Wilton has hit back at allegations of child cruelty, calling them “defamatory and erroneous” and “emphatically and categorically” denying that any such incidents took place.

Wilton Park School, which caters for students from the Brethren community, was accused in The Mail on Sunday of punishing students for setting up a Facebook page.

Quoting extracts from a dossier handed over to the newspaper by a teacher at the school, the article states that pupils were withdrawn from the school between the months of May and July 2012, and confined to their homes, with all communication forbidden with anyone outside their close families.

It states that the “only girl” in the group of six, aged 16 to 18, was “shut up” for the longest period and suffered “both mentally and physically” as a result. But a statement issued to the Journal by the school’s trustees says “it is completely untrue” to suggest that the “government registered and accredited school in any way acted upon directions or instructions from the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church.”

In reference to the girl having been shut away for 37 days, the trustees said the “girl’s father was going through a difficult time and the girl’s agreed wish was to stay at home with her mother in support of the household”.

They added: “This was done with the full knowledge of the school, and the school provided educational resources and support so she could do her schoolwork at home temporarily.”

The article described the Brethren as a “Christian sect”, which considered laptops “instruments of evil” and said it failed to teach the National Curriculum. But the trustees said the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church is “a mainstream Christian Church holding substantially the same doctrines as the Church of England” and that laptops are found in “nearly all Plymouth Brethren homes and businesses and are used in all Plymouth Brethren Schools”.

They added: “Computers and mobile phones used by Brethren members have restrictions to prevent access to the unrestricted and contemptible filth and corruption that we regard as evil and which is so readily available on these electronic devices.”

The trustees also stated that teaching at the school is almost entirely by non-Brethren professional staff and is based on the National Curriculum, adding the school “is completely open to unfettered inspection by relevant Government authorities at all times”.

And they denied children are subject to gender segregation at all times, saying boys and girls are taught together and take part in extracurricular projects and excursions. A Wiltshire Council spokesman confirmed a letter had been received raising concerns about the school. He said: “We take all allegations of child abuse extremely seriously and we will always investigate these matters. Following an allegation, the council works with partner organisations to take action to ensure that children are protected.”

Wilton Park School opened in September 2011, following the amalgamation of Tisbury School and Allbrook School.

Comments (40)

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12:47pm Thu 24 Jan 13

2Timothy says...

I suggest it’s not accurate of the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church (up until recently called the Exclusive Brethren) to say they are “a mainstream Christian Church holding substantially the same doctrines as the Church of England”

The Church of England does not hold to their bizarre practice of extreme separation, meaning an offence is dealt with by internal exclusion/shutting up, which is clearly affecting home life and the school life of students.

Then the further practice of withdrawal/ex-commun
ication. This reportedly leads to family break ups as ex-communication means no contact with brothers, sisters, mother, father, sons, daughters, uncles, aunts etc. No phone calls, no letters, no birthdays together, no Christmases together, no weddings, no funerals.

This is not the same as mainstream Christianity or the C of E in particular.
I suggest it’s not accurate of the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church (up until recently called the Exclusive Brethren) to say they are “a mainstream Christian Church holding substantially the same doctrines as the Church of England” The Church of England does not hold to their bizarre practice of extreme separation, meaning an offence is dealt with by internal exclusion/shutting up, which is clearly affecting home life and the school life of students. Then the further practice of withdrawal/ex-commun ication. This reportedly leads to family break ups as ex-communication means no contact with brothers, sisters, mother, father, sons, daughters, uncles, aunts etc. No phone calls, no letters, no birthdays together, no Christmases together, no weddings, no funerals. This is not the same as mainstream Christianity or the C of E in particular. 2Timothy
  • Score: -1

8:25am Fri 25 Jan 13

Average Joe Public says...

Any religion can look whacky to the outsider. Speaking of "reportedly" rules which have been twisted and exaggerated by the "Not like us" brigade is something we have to live with today.

The Brethren I see everyday are the ones who have free Sunday lunches for the community, and no, they don't press a bible into your hand. They are the ones who cleared and gritted the whole street recently.

Go and talk to a Brethren next time you see one. They're Christian and nice!
Any religion can look whacky to the outsider. Speaking of "reportedly" rules which have been twisted and exaggerated by the "Not like us" brigade is something we have to live with today. The Brethren I see everyday are the ones who have free Sunday lunches for the community, and no, they don't press a bible into your hand. They are the ones who cleared and gritted the whole street recently. Go and talk to a Brethren next time you see one. They're Christian and nice! Average Joe Public
  • Score: 1

8:37am Fri 25 Jan 13

2Timothy says...

I'm glad they've gritted the streets. I'm glad they've come out of their locked and barred assembly halls into the public space and are doing good. I'm sure the majority of the Exclusive Brethren are good people. It's the un-Christian and cruel practices as reported above that are the issue.
I'm glad they've gritted the streets. I'm glad they've come out of their locked and barred assembly halls into the public space and are doing good. I'm sure the majority of the Exclusive Brethren are good people. It's the un-Christian and cruel practices as reported above that are the issue. 2Timothy
  • Score: -1

9:43am Fri 25 Jan 13

Dr S Brule says...

Christianity, along with the other desert monotheisms has judgement and punishment at the core of it's beliefs.
Christianity, along with the other desert monotheisms has judgement and punishment at the core of it's beliefs. Dr S Brule
  • Score: 0

9:47am Fri 25 Jan 13

Dr S Brule says...

...apologies for the second post. Whilst it's not my paper and I'm not a journalist - readers may be interested that our MP John Glen, along with 51 others wrote a letter to the Telegraph arguing in favor of the Brethern getting charitable status. Omitted in the article is Wilton Park's school efforts to get state funding as a "free school". More info inbound as soon as I can be bothered....
...apologies for the second post. Whilst it's not my paper and I'm not a journalist - readers may be interested that our MP John Glen, along with 51 others wrote a letter to the Telegraph arguing in favor of the Brethern getting charitable status. Omitted in the article is Wilton Park's school efforts to get state funding as a "free school". More info inbound as soon as I can be bothered.... Dr S Brule
  • Score: 0

5:17am Sat 26 Jan 13

SuzieQutzie says...

The rebuttal provided by the Exclusive Brethren (now calling themselves Plymouth Brethren Christian Church) is full of discrepancies, falsehoods and deceit.

Not only that, Garth Christie, one of those who has his name on this statement, was the one who stood up at the PASC Committee hearing and lied under oath; he also misled MP's about the groups Charity Commission case and eventually apologized, citing his bad notes as an excuse... so he is not exactly someone we could really consider to be as honest and believable and able to deliver "facts".

Not only this, the new name this group have adopted is deliberately deceptive and the Churches who the name truly belongs to, have made a public statement and their own press release, including sending a letter to the Charity Commission, to distance themselves from the group above who had been pretending to be them, and this group of Plymouth Open Brethren in Partnership, have made it very clear the huge differences between their group of Churches and the Exclusive Brethren.

Also it would be pertinent to note that the Exclusive Brethren (now deceptively calling themselves Plymouth Brethren Christian Church) are the only ones saying the so called "facts" about the history of their name, except for an article that they altered which is under dispute, in Wikipedia (not exactly a reputable authority). All other Theological Textbooks, Religious Encyclopedia's and Church History documents will tell a completely different story. This leads one to wonder how these could all possibly be wrong, and the EB/PBCC group be right...

In the light of all these above deceptions, how can anyone believe the press release made by this group, especially when there are literally thousands of news articles & TV documentaries and court cases which uphold the original article which the Mail published. Surely if these were all incorrect, as the EB/PBCC group would have us believe, surely they would have been made to remove the articles?!
The rebuttal provided by the Exclusive Brethren (now calling themselves Plymouth Brethren Christian Church) is full of discrepancies, falsehoods and deceit. Not only that, Garth Christie, one of those who has his name on this statement, was the one who stood up at the PASC Committee hearing and lied under oath; he also misled MP's about the groups Charity Commission case and eventually apologized, citing his bad notes as an excuse... so he is not exactly someone we could really consider to be as honest and believable and able to deliver "facts". Not only this, the new name this group have adopted is deliberately deceptive and the Churches who the name truly belongs to, have made a public statement and their own press release, including sending a letter to the Charity Commission, to distance themselves from the group above who had been pretending to be them, and this group of Plymouth Open Brethren in Partnership, have made it very clear the huge differences between their group of Churches and the Exclusive Brethren. Also it would be pertinent to note that the Exclusive Brethren (now deceptively calling themselves Plymouth Brethren Christian Church) are the only ones saying the so called "facts" about the history of their name, except for an article that they altered which is under dispute, in Wikipedia (not exactly a reputable authority). All other Theological Textbooks, Religious Encyclopedia's and Church History documents will tell a completely different story. This leads one to wonder how these could all possibly be wrong, and the EB/PBCC group be right... In the light of all these above deceptions, how can anyone believe the press release made by this group, especially when there are literally thousands of news articles & TV documentaries and court cases which uphold the original article which the Mail published. Surely if these were all incorrect, as the EB/PBCC group would have us believe, surely they would have been made to remove the articles?! SuzieQutzie
  • Score: -1

5:22am Sat 26 Jan 13

SuzieQutzie says...

And more importantly, as to the above group having "substantially the same doctrines as CofE or Church of England", this is complete and utter nonsense and worse. I call it deliberately deceitful and a shocking attempt to publicly falsify who they are and what they believe and practice.

Not only did their original leader JN Darby leave the C of E and claim they were corrupt, he did all he could to ensure his group was nothing like them...

I know this as not only was I bought up in the Exclusive Brethren cult, I am now a Theological Degree Student at a C of E College and here we study the origins, beliefs and doctrines of Churches and other Religious, and I have recently gained an A level pass in all my subjects here. I am also a Student Intern with a C of E Parish, and I also hold a ministry position in this Church.

My Exclusive Brethren own blood family are allowed nothing to do with me, yet my C of E Church family who are not even related to me, are always supporting and helping me. I am not allowed to worship or go to church with my Exclusive Brethren family, yet my Exclusive Brethren family would be welcome in my C of E church if they were allowed to come, but they are prevented from doing so even if they wished it. I can take communion at my C of E church with any current communicant member of any other Christian Church, but I am not allowed to even eat or drink with an Exclusive Brethren cult member, let alone have the "Lords's Supper" with them, as i am considered evil for leaving their cult and becoming a committed Born-again Christian after doing so. I was never a Christian in the Exclusive Brethren, but I was forcibly baptized and made a member against my will, then punished for choosing to leave, all things that breach parts of Human Rights Article 9.

I can but hope the C of E also distance themselves from this group who seem intent on pretending they are something they are not, just as the Partnership Group of Brethren Churches had to do.

http://www.partnersh
ipuk.org/qwicsitePro
2/php/docsview.php?d
ocid=1658
And more importantly, as to the above group having "substantially the same doctrines as CofE or Church of England", this is complete and utter nonsense and worse. I call it deliberately deceitful and a shocking attempt to publicly falsify who they are and what they believe and practice. Not only did their original leader JN Darby leave the C of E and claim they were corrupt, he did all he could to ensure his group was nothing like them... I know this as not only was I bought up in the Exclusive Brethren cult, I am now a Theological Degree Student at a C of E College and here we study the origins, beliefs and doctrines of Churches and other Religious, and I have recently gained an A level pass in all my subjects here. I am also a Student Intern with a C of E Parish, and I also hold a ministry position in this Church. My Exclusive Brethren own blood family are allowed nothing to do with me, yet my C of E Church family who are not even related to me, are always supporting and helping me. I am not allowed to worship or go to church with my Exclusive Brethren family, yet my Exclusive Brethren family would be welcome in my C of E church if they were allowed to come, but they are prevented from doing so even if they wished it. I can take communion at my C of E church with any current communicant member of any other Christian Church, but I am not allowed to even eat or drink with an Exclusive Brethren cult member, let alone have the "Lords's Supper" with them, as i am considered evil for leaving their cult and becoming a committed Born-again Christian after doing so. I was never a Christian in the Exclusive Brethren, but I was forcibly baptized and made a member against my will, then punished for choosing to leave, all things that breach parts of Human Rights Article 9. I can but hope the C of E also distance themselves from this group who seem intent on pretending they are something they are not, just as the Partnership Group of Brethren Churches had to do. http://www.partnersh ipuk.org/qwicsitePro 2/php/docsview.php?d ocid=1658 SuzieQutzie
  • Score: -1

5:28am Sat 26 Jan 13

SuzieQutzie says...

...And yet this release fails to be truthful or factual, in that it deceives the reader into thinking that computers have always been allowed in the Exclusive Brethren (now just recently changed to Plymouth Brethren Christian Church), yet in all honesty as they well know, their members used to be totally excommunicated from this cult and their families for even using a computer, let alone owning one.

Not only this, but when the use of computers suddenly became ok with their new leader, only as he had to allow them so his state funded schools could go ahead, the cult did not go back and apologize to all those people whose lives they ruined by ripping apart their families for committing "evil" and using or owning computers, nor did they compensate them for their loses, they did not even ever say that their initial rulings were wrong, they just pretended that "God had moved on" when it says clearly in the Bible, that God is the same yesterday, today and forever."

In real fact, their leader BDH (Bruce Hales) actually preached that computers, the internet and smart phones are instruments of the devil, and described the internet (which his followers are now allowed to use) as a pipeline... a torrent of filth... now he sells these very same instruments and allows his followers to access the internet torrent of filth, all so he can make money and control their activities.

This is a very poignant reminder that this cult are mind controlled and brainwashed into thinking that their leader is infallible and speaks God's truth, even when this supposed truth is opposed to God's own commandments and teachings in the Bible... a very telling video link is shown below: http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=CZasKL40b
4w


I do apologize for breaking up the posts, but I did not want to make the comments too long and there are an awful lot of deceitful claims made in the Exclusive Brethren (now calling themselves Plymouth Brethren Christian Church) press release and rebuttal statement that needs to be exposed as fraudulent.
...And yet this release fails to be truthful or factual, in that it deceives the reader into thinking that computers have always been allowed in the Exclusive Brethren (now just recently changed to Plymouth Brethren Christian Church), yet in all honesty as they well know, their members used to be totally excommunicated from this cult and their families for even using a computer, let alone owning one. Not only this, but when the use of computers suddenly became ok with their new leader, only as he had to allow them so his state funded schools could go ahead, the cult did not go back and apologize to all those people whose lives they ruined by ripping apart their families for committing "evil" and using or owning computers, nor did they compensate them for their loses, they did not even ever say that their initial rulings were wrong, they just pretended that "God had moved on" when it says clearly in the Bible, that God is the same yesterday, today and forever." In real fact, their leader BDH (Bruce Hales) actually preached that computers, the internet and smart phones are instruments of the devil, and described the internet (which his followers are now allowed to use) as a pipeline... a torrent of filth... now he sells these very same instruments and allows his followers to access the internet torrent of filth, all so he can make money and control their activities. This is a very poignant reminder that this cult are mind controlled and brainwashed into thinking that their leader is infallible and speaks God's truth, even when this supposed truth is opposed to God's own commandments and teachings in the Bible... a very telling video link is shown below: http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=CZasKL40b 4w I do apologize for breaking up the posts, but I did not want to make the comments too long and there are an awful lot of deceitful claims made in the Exclusive Brethren (now calling themselves Plymouth Brethren Christian Church) press release and rebuttal statement that needs to be exposed as fraudulent. SuzieQutzie
  • Score: -1

5:37am Sat 26 Jan 13

SuzieQutzie says...

Finally, the statement by this group that: "The girl’s father was going through a difficult time and the girl’s agreed wish was to stay at home ... This was done with the full knowledge of the school...”

Those of us from this cult know this kind of treatment, it IS called 'Shutting up' and if you do not agree to it, you are punished by the group. You are not allowed contact with those inside the membership while you are 'shut up' which is why she was at home for this time. Anyone going through a difficult time in this cult is removed from being allowed the benefits until they agree to publicly confess their sin, which may be as simple as wanting to follow Christ not the cults leader and man-made edicts. This cult is truly as sinister and abusive and damaging as they are made out to be, you better believe it.... there is a raft of evidence available to support the report by the Mail article.

What is more, of course it was done with the knowledge of the school, the school is the Church cult! They are run by one and the same... it is very easy to make things seem so different from what they are with a little flash spin and PR, something the Exclusive Brethren/Plymouth Brethren Christian Church are very good at and can afford, being taxpayer funded.
Finally, the statement by this group that: "The girl’s father was going through a difficult time and the girl’s agreed wish was to stay at home ... This was done with the full knowledge of the school...” Those of us from this cult know this kind of treatment, it IS called 'Shutting up' and if you do not agree to it, you are punished by the group. You are not allowed contact with those inside the membership while you are 'shut up' which is why she was at home for this time. Anyone going through a difficult time in this cult is removed from being allowed the benefits until they agree to publicly confess their sin, which may be as simple as wanting to follow Christ not the cults leader and man-made edicts. This cult is truly as sinister and abusive and damaging as they are made out to be, you better believe it.... there is a raft of evidence available to support the report by the Mail article. What is more, of course it was done with the knowledge of the school, the school is the Church cult! They are run by one and the same... it is very easy to make things seem so different from what they are with a little flash spin and PR, something the Exclusive Brethren/Plymouth Brethren Christian Church are very good at and can afford, being taxpayer funded. SuzieQutzie
  • Score: -1

4:29pm Sat 26 Jan 13

Grampie says...

I hope you copy these comments to John Glen MP and I await his questions to the Prime Minister on the subject.
I hope you copy these comments to John Glen MP and I await his questions to the Prime Minister on the subject. Grampie
  • Score: 0

12:37pm Mon 28 Jan 13

Markthegooner says...

I have worked for the Plymouth Brethren for over 8 years, and in this time I have found them to be hard working,honest,chari
table,law abiding,polite people.I have watched a lot of their children grow up to be fine young adults.If only the ' normal ' people in this country were as pleasant to work with and talk to. I find the allegations against them totally unfounded and untrue. I hope they clear their name and reputation quickly.
I have worked for the Plymouth Brethren for over 8 years, and in this time I have found them to be hard working,honest,chari table,law abiding,polite people.I have watched a lot of their children grow up to be fine young adults.If only the ' normal ' people in this country were as pleasant to work with and talk to. I find the allegations against them totally unfounded and untrue. I hope they clear their name and reputation quickly. Markthegooner
  • Score: 1

2:06pm Mon 28 Jan 13

2Timothy says...

Well Markthegooner, they'll only clear their name if they are innocent. Local, National and International evidence strongly suggests the type of information provided above in the replies is actually the truth.
Well Markthegooner, they'll only clear their name if they are innocent. Local, National and International evidence strongly suggests the type of information provided above in the replies is actually the truth. 2Timothy
  • Score: 0

6:28pm Tue 29 Jan 13

The Muzzer says...

I have worked for the Brethren for some years now, and I can only thank them for employing me and treating me better than any company I have ever worked for. They are very hardworking people which is why they are very successful in whatever they do. There children are the most polite, respectful and well educated young people you could ever wish to meet. The world would be a lot nicer place to live if all were like them. From what I can see is that people do not understand them and therefore take an instant dislike to them and there beliefs.
Many people are jealous of people who are happy and successful in there lives and will find way's disrupt this as much as possible.
In this day and age a group of good people who do as much work for the community as these people do deserve nothing but praise in my book, not the hassle they are getting from the minority with nothing better to do.
If in doubt get out and talk to some of the Brethren young and old, I have not met one that is not happy with there lives.
I have worked for the Brethren for some years now, and I can only thank them for employing me and treating me better than any company I have ever worked for. They are very hardworking people which is why they are very successful in whatever they do. There children are the most polite, respectful and well educated young people you could ever wish to meet. The world would be a lot nicer place to live if all were like them. From what I can see is that people do not understand them and therefore take an instant dislike to them and there beliefs. Many people are jealous of people who are happy and successful in there lives and will find way's disrupt this as much as possible. In this day and age a group of good people who do as much work for the community as these people do deserve nothing but praise in my book, not the hassle they are getting from the minority with nothing better to do. If in doubt get out and talk to some of the Brethren young and old, I have not met one that is not happy with there lives. The Muzzer
  • Score: 1

6:29pm Tue 29 Jan 13

utd in one says...

what a load of rubbish the mail has put they will only publish what hurts other people except them selves, if they only new the plymouth brethren they would know what kind and family values they show they show warm love and true values that people should take note of that and may be in this world be able to get on with each other not running people down on there beliefs,my dad died a couple of years ago beside my famly and friends being there for me they showed warm and compasion to me and i will never forget that. we should all live in a world that we should get on with .
what a load of rubbish the mail has put they will only publish what hurts other people except them selves, if they only new the plymouth brethren they would know what kind and family values they show they show warm love and true values that people should take note of that and may be in this world be able to get on with each other not running people down on there beliefs,my dad died a couple of years ago beside my famly and friends being there for me they showed warm and compasion to me and i will never forget that. we should all live in a world that we should get on with . utd in one
  • Score: 1

9:07pm Tue 29 Jan 13

2Timothy says...

It's really good to read the above two posts where examples of good by the Exclusive Brethren can be see. I'm sure that there are very many good people who are born into and live as members of the Exclusive Brethren. What's worrying are the worldwide stories of harm done by the Exclusive Brethren as a group - as illustrated by the school story above - if that proves to be true. It suggests a leadship who may be at odds with its membership. Then of course the awful tales of losing all family contact if you dare to leave. That can only been seen as cruel and inhuman. One has to wonder why the leadership promote such values.
It's really good to read the above two posts where examples of good by the Exclusive Brethren can be see. I'm sure that there are very many good people who are born into and live as members of the Exclusive Brethren. What's worrying are the worldwide stories of harm done by the Exclusive Brethren as a group - as illustrated by the school story above - if that proves to be true. It suggests a leadship who may be at odds with its membership. Then of course the awful tales of losing all family contact if you dare to leave. That can only been seen as cruel and inhuman. One has to wonder why the leadership promote such values. 2Timothy
  • Score: 0

10:01pm Tue 29 Jan 13

2Timothy says...

Is it true that the school has now been closed, and the children dispersed through the countryside to other Brethren schools?

Is it also true that a firm of lawyers have been employed to find who leaked the story?

If this is true, isn't this a bizarre was to handle a child cruelty complaint? In that case again one must question the decisions of the Exclusive Brethren leadership.
Is it true that the school has now been closed, and the children dispersed through the countryside to other Brethren schools? Is it also true that a firm of lawyers have been employed to find who leaked the story? If this is true, isn't this a bizarre was to handle a child cruelty complaint? In that case again one must question the decisions of the Exclusive Brethren leadership. 2Timothy
  • Score: 0

10:13pm Tue 29 Jan 13

SuzieQutzie says...

of course those above who are claiming to be employed by Exclusive Brethren (now calling themselves Plymouth Brethren Christian Church) would never have heard of any of them being unhappy... if you dare to suggest you are unhappy in their cult, they throw you out and you lose your family, your job and often your house.

They also refuse to have anything to do with any leavers, even those who leave as they want to follow the Christian faith and the Bible, not the man-made laws of this cult.

I am sure that those working with Scientology businesses also see only happy people, as that is all they are allowed to portray; that is the sign of a cult. Can you seriously tell me you know of ANY single other Company OR Church where EVERYBODY is totally happy? What complete and utter nonsense!!

These sort of bizarre comments make me believe that they are made by members of this cult themselves, as they are the only ones who would always "claim" to be happy no matter what, simply as they are too fearful of the consequences to them to admit otherwise...
of course those above who are claiming to be employed by Exclusive Brethren (now calling themselves Plymouth Brethren Christian Church) would never have heard of any of them being unhappy... if you dare to suggest you are unhappy in their cult, they throw you out and you lose your family, your job and often your house. They also refuse to have anything to do with any leavers, even those who leave as they want to follow the Christian faith and the Bible, not the man-made laws of this cult. I am sure that those working with Scientology businesses also see only happy people, as that is all they are allowed to portray; that is the sign of a cult. Can you seriously tell me you know of ANY single other Company OR Church where EVERYBODY is totally happy? What complete and utter nonsense!! These sort of bizarre comments make me believe that they are made by members of this cult themselves, as they are the only ones who would always "claim" to be happy no matter what, simply as they are too fearful of the consequences to them to admit otherwise... SuzieQutzie
  • Score: -1

5:34am Wed 30 Jan 13

The Muzzer says...

SuzieQutzie is obviously a very unhappy person and very shallow. Talking and working with the same people 5 day's a week every week and every year you get to know them quite well and you know by just talking to them and listening to how they look after each other and others outside there group that they are happy in the way they run there lives. You on the other hand suziequtzie do sound a very sad and lonely person now that you are excluded from this group. I know that the only person that would stop me making contact with any member of my family would be ME, I have a mind of my own, the same as every member of the Brethren that I have spoken to. Get a Life!!!
SuzieQutzie is obviously a very unhappy person and very shallow. Talking and working with the same people 5 day's a week every week and every year you get to know them quite well and you know by just talking to them and listening to how they look after each other and others outside there group that they are happy in the way they run there lives. You on the other hand suziequtzie do sound a very sad and lonely person now that you are excluded from this group. I know that the only person that would stop me making contact with any member of my family would be ME, I have a mind of my own, the same as every member of the Brethren that I have spoken to. Get a Life!!! The Muzzer
  • Score: 1

7:00am Wed 30 Jan 13

SuzieQutzie says...

Sorry "themuzzer" im not at all sad, lonely, or unhappy with my own life at all, I have Jesus and also an amazing husband and his family appreciate everything I do for him and them; I also have a huge Church family that are very supportive and I have a lot to do with them, I am also very busy in a ministry role at the Parish, and don't need my own family.

But, I find it tragic that my own blood family are forced by the leaders of this cult to have nothing to do with me. I ring my sister, and she says she is not allowed to talk to me. I go to see my mother and get told I have been refused permission to see her. I try to talk to my brother, and he says he cannot talk to me as it is not right... so sounds like you don't know as much as you think!!
Sorry "themuzzer" im not at all sad, lonely, or unhappy with my own life at all, I have Jesus and also an amazing husband and his family appreciate everything I do for him and them; I also have a huge Church family that are very supportive and I have a lot to do with them, I am also very busy in a ministry role at the Parish, and don't need my own family. But, I find it tragic that my own blood family are forced by the leaders of this cult to have nothing to do with me. I ring my sister, and she says she is not allowed to talk to me. I go to see my mother and get told I have been refused permission to see her. I try to talk to my brother, and he says he cannot talk to me as it is not right... so sounds like you don't know as much as you think!! SuzieQutzie
  • Score: 0

9:32am Wed 30 Jan 13

2Timothy says...

I think personal insults do not help.

Rather the truth of the matter needs to be found out. I’m sure the Police and the LEA will do a thorough job of investigating this matter and the well being of the children be assured.

I still think it’s odd to shut the school in a response to this alleged scandal. Is there not a whistle blowing policy for staff and students which should cover such events? Is there not a child protection policy which should cover such events?

Was it necessary as alleged to bring a firm of lawyers in to conduct a ‘witch-hunt’ for the whistle blower?
I thought modern schools acted in a more modern and enlightened way.
I think personal insults do not help. Rather the truth of the matter needs to be found out. I’m sure the Police and the LEA will do a thorough job of investigating this matter and the well being of the children be assured. I still think it’s odd to shut the school in a response to this alleged scandal. Is there not a whistle blowing policy for staff and students which should cover such events? Is there not a child protection policy which should cover such events? Was it necessary as alleged to bring a firm of lawyers in to conduct a ‘witch-hunt’ for the whistle blower? I thought modern schools acted in a more modern and enlightened way. 2Timothy
  • Score: 0

5:58pm Wed 30 Jan 13

2Timothy says...

The wider story contines:

The link refers to the Exclusive Brethren: Parliamentarians gather evidence of alleged 'harm' from former Plymouth Brethren

http://www.thirdsect
or.co.uk/bulletin/th
ird_sector_daily_bul
letin/article/116860
9/parliamentarians-g
ather-evidence-alleg
ed-harm-former-plymo
uth-brethren/?DCMP=E
MC-CONThirdSectorDai
ly

where Baroness O’Loan said she had not yet decided what she might do with evidence given to her but that she was concerned about the restrictions of the Brethren way of life, and its effect on children.

"At the moment we are just gathering evidence," she said. "We have not decided what we would do next.

"But we need to know more. If this organisation is being funded by us because it’s a charity, we need to be sure that its charitable status is justified."

She said she was concerned about the fact young people were not allowed to go to university or join groups outside their own community.

O'Loan said she was also keen to find out whether the disciplinary process of "shutting up", where members of the congregation stopped speaking to a particular individual, was practised on children.
The wider story contines: The link refers to the Exclusive Brethren: Parliamentarians gather evidence of alleged 'harm' from former Plymouth Brethren http://www.thirdsect or.co.uk/bulletin/th ird_sector_daily_bul letin/article/116860 9/parliamentarians-g ather-evidence-alleg ed-harm-former-plymo uth-brethren/?DCMP=E MC-CONThirdSectorDai ly where Baroness O’Loan said she had not yet decided what she might do with evidence given to her but that she was concerned about the restrictions of the Brethren way of life, and its effect on children. "At the moment we are just gathering evidence," she said. "We have not decided what we would do next. "But we need to know more. If this organisation is being funded by us because it’s a charity, we need to be sure that its charitable status is justified." She said she was concerned about the fact young people were not allowed to go to university or join groups outside their own community. O'Loan said she was also keen to find out whether the disciplinary process of "shutting up", where members of the congregation stopped speaking to a particular individual, was practised on children. 2Timothy
  • Score: 0

6:09pm Wed 30 Jan 13

The Muzzer says...

Suziequtzie I am sure your hurt by your family rejecting your attempts to them contact. You obviously decided a long time ago that it wasn't for you,but what keeps your family from seeing you. They and they alone make the final decision as to how they want to lead there lives.
And No I am not a part of this or any other group, and I don't pretend to Know a lot about it, but I do know that everybody makes there own decision as to what path they wish to go down in life. If it then goes wrong for whatever reason they only have themselves to blame nobody else. As I stated before nobody would stop me seeing my family if I wanted to, if they don't want to see me that would be there decision nobody else's, surely anything else would just be a screen to hide behind.
Suziequtzie I am sure your hurt by your family rejecting your attempts to them contact. You obviously decided a long time ago that it wasn't for you,but what keeps your family from seeing you. They and they alone make the final decision as to how they want to lead there lives. And No I am not a part of this or any other group, and I don't pretend to Know a lot about it, but I do know that everybody makes there own decision as to what path they wish to go down in life. If it then goes wrong for whatever reason they only have themselves to blame nobody else. As I stated before nobody would stop me seeing my family if I wanted to, if they don't want to see me that would be there decision nobody else's, surely anything else would just be a screen to hide behind. The Muzzer
  • Score: 1

6:21pm Wed 30 Jan 13

SuzieQutzie says...

Um Muzzer, you are very wrong there. This group will remove your family from you if they contact any family member who is not a member;

My own brother told me he was too TERRIFIED of having any contact with me, as if he got caught, he would lose his own wife and kids. You have no idea, this cult rule with fear and threats and blackmail.

There is no difference to them and Scientology except the God they presume to follow. You simply cannot fight a whole cult by yourself, you are simply railroaded and bullied into agreeing or otherwise you suffer punishment and the awful consequences.

I suggest you look up some of the news articles and personal accounts below:

Religious Child Abuse: http://religiouschil
dabuse.blogspot.co.n
z/2011/04/totalitari
an-control-of-exclus
ive.html

Cult Information & Family Support: https://www.google.c
om/search?q=Exclusiv
e+Brethren&sitesearc
h=cifs.org.au


It would be much better if you refrained from making uniformed comments, as that is very hurtful to the many thousands of ex-members suffering from enforced removal from their families, a lot of who were only children when they were cruelly ripped away from parents.
Um Muzzer, you are very wrong there. This group will remove your family from you if they contact any family member who is not a member; My own brother told me he was too TERRIFIED of having any contact with me, as if he got caught, he would lose his own wife and kids. You have no idea, this cult rule with fear and threats and blackmail. There is no difference to them and Scientology except the God they presume to follow. You simply cannot fight a whole cult by yourself, you are simply railroaded and bullied into agreeing or otherwise you suffer punishment and the awful consequences. I suggest you look up some of the news articles and personal accounts below: Religious Child Abuse: http://religiouschil dabuse.blogspot.co.n z/2011/04/totalitari an-control-of-exclus ive.html Cult Information & Family Support: https://www.google.c om/search?q=Exclusiv e+Brethren&sitesearc h=cifs.org.au It would be much better if you refrained from making uniformed comments, as that is very hurtful to the many thousands of ex-members suffering from enforced removal from their families, a lot of who were only children when they were cruelly ripped away from parents. SuzieQutzie
  • Score: -1

6:23pm Wed 30 Jan 13

SuzieQutzie says...

In case you were unaware Muzzer, the actions of this religious cult, the Exclusive Brethren (now calling themselves Plymouth Brethren Christian Church) are in violation of Human Rights Article 9, and are an abuse of Human Rights against children.

That makes this all pretty serious, and for you to be championing their cause, frankly makes me sick.
In case you were unaware Muzzer, the actions of this religious cult, the Exclusive Brethren (now calling themselves Plymouth Brethren Christian Church) are in violation of Human Rights Article 9, and are an abuse of Human Rights against children. That makes this all pretty serious, and for you to be championing their cause, frankly makes me sick. SuzieQutzie
  • Score: -1

6:35pm Wed 30 Jan 13

The Muzzer says...

We are all entitled to an opinion, as I said we make our own decisions in life.
We are all entitled to an opinion, as I said we make our own decisions in life. The Muzzer
  • Score: 1

6:41pm Wed 30 Jan 13

SuzieQutzie says...

I did not read your comments as an opinion Muzzer... you suggested that this could not stop my family from seeing me, and they can and they have.

That is what a cult is, it REMOVES any choice you have to make your OWN decisions and controls your life.

I do wish for your own sake, you would allow your "opinions" to be expanded by searching out more information on cults and mind control... it may lead to you realizing your "opinions" are ill-formed :) Or maybe you don't wish to have your "opinions" challenged by evidence...

Mind control in Cults: http://www.cephasmin
istry.com/mind_contr
ol.html
I did not read your comments as an opinion Muzzer... you suggested that this could not stop my family from seeing me, and they can and they have. That is what a cult is, it REMOVES any choice you have to make your OWN decisions and controls your life. I do wish for your own sake, you would allow your "opinions" to be expanded by searching out more information on cults and mind control... it may lead to you realizing your "opinions" are ill-formed :) Or maybe you don't wish to have your "opinions" challenged by evidence... Mind control in Cults: http://www.cephasmin istry.com/mind_contr ol.html SuzieQutzie
  • Score: -1

6:47pm Wed 30 Jan 13

ManFromMars says...

I've worked for an Exclusive Brethren (now called the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church) business for over 20 years and can attest to the politeness and decency of this group's individuals. But, let me assure you, the cult into which these friends of mine had the misfortune to have been born and indoctrinated is not at all nice. It stifles its members at every turn, prohibiting sports, social contact with non-brethren and all forms of electronic communication (with the recent and convenient exception of doctored mobile phones, computers and laptops purchased from one brethren source at hugely inflated prices). These people are my friends, yet I'll never go for a curry with them or add them on facebook - simply because their great leader (currently an Australian accountant / furniture salesman / electronic gadget peddler) says so.
Please also don't be fooled by the EBs recent decision to hand out burgers and bibles. This sudden charitable nature is a new initiative, implemented as a direct response to the Charity Commission's likely upcoming decision that the EBs are of no benefit to the public at large and don't deserve their huge tax relief on their meeting rooms and collective finances. And if you DO decide to pop by and see them during one of their 'events', offer to share a table with them while you and they eat. They will refuse because their cult leaders DEMAND that they not eat with the unwashed masses ie you and I. Ask for a look around their meeting room (the burgers are doled out in tents in the car park). They will refuse to allow you into their meeting room. Why? Because their belief system DEMANDS that they keep it clean from the influence of evil outsiders like you and I. It's so sad.
I've worked for an Exclusive Brethren (now called the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church) business for over 20 years and can attest to the politeness and decency of this group's individuals. But, let me assure you, the cult into which these friends of mine had the misfortune to have been born and indoctrinated is not at all nice. It stifles its members at every turn, prohibiting sports, social contact with non-brethren and all forms of electronic communication (with the recent and convenient exception of doctored mobile phones, computers and laptops purchased from one brethren source at hugely inflated prices). These people are my friends, yet I'll never go for a curry with them or add them on facebook - simply because their great leader (currently an Australian accountant / furniture salesman / electronic gadget peddler) says so. Please also don't be fooled by the EBs recent decision to hand out burgers and bibles. This sudden charitable nature is a new initiative, implemented as a direct response to the Charity Commission's likely upcoming decision that the EBs are of no benefit to the public at large and don't deserve their huge tax relief on their meeting rooms and collective finances. And if you DO decide to pop by and see them during one of their 'events', offer to share a table with them while you and they eat. They will refuse because their cult leaders DEMAND that they not eat with the unwashed masses ie you and I. Ask for a look around their meeting room (the burgers are doled out in tents in the car park). They will refuse to allow you into their meeting room. Why? Because their belief system DEMANDS that they keep it clean from the influence of evil outsiders like you and I. It's so sad. ManFromMars
  • Score: 0

10:57pm Wed 30 Jan 13

counsellor says...

It is not unusual in senior schools that relationships develop that need parental intervention with no questions asked, as the Muzzer says we make our own decisions in life
It is not unusual in senior schools that relationships develop that need parental intervention with no questions asked, as the Muzzer says we make our own decisions in life counsellor
  • Score: 1

8:44am Thu 31 Jan 13

2Timothy says...

Counsellor: You are right for the vast majority of us that we do make our own decisions. It seems that those born and raised in the Exclusive Brethren feel unable to do this due to peer pressure; the risks of loss of employment; loss of home and loss of family. Some do indeed make their own decision and leave. It's those leavers who present this evidence. Currently this is being presented to a Parliamentary Committee investigating the alleged harm the Exclusive Brethren do. http://www.thirdsect
or.co.uk/Governance/
article/1168609/parl
iamentarians-gather-
evidence-alleged-har
m-former-plymouth-br
ethren/
Counsellor: You are right for the vast majority of us that we do make our own decisions. It seems that those born and raised in the Exclusive Brethren feel unable to do this due to peer pressure; the risks of loss of employment; loss of home and loss of family. Some do indeed make their own decision and leave. It's those leavers who present this evidence. Currently this is being presented to a Parliamentary Committee investigating the alleged harm the Exclusive Brethren do. http://www.thirdsect or.co.uk/Governance/ article/1168609/parl iamentarians-gather- evidence-alleged-har m-former-plymouth-br ethren/ 2Timothy
  • Score: 0

8:59am Thu 31 Jan 13

SuzieQutzie says...

And for the record, I was born into this cult, forcibly baptized against my will, made a member without my consent and then punished by losing my family, my friends, my business and my money when I chose to leave (so much for Human Rights Article 9!!).

I was also as a youngster admitted to hospital for severe medical problems, which the doctors suspected was from family, social and religious abuse (all well documented in my medical records, which I have copies of here). I was then removed from this hospital AGAINST medical advice, by my parents, who refused to allow me to be seen by the psychiatrist. Again all well documented, including a very damning letter from the pediatrician to my family doctor, outlining his concerns for me and my wellbeing.

I have had remaining health problems for the rest of my life due to the lack of medical care I received at this time, all because I was not allowed to make my own decisions, and neither were the medical profession. This is the huge amount of power this group exerts over people; sadly in those days there was no child protection agency, or I would have been safe from them...

This is also why I am fighting to have ugly truth of this group/religious cult exposed, so that more children are not abused like I was, as there is NEVER any excuse for that. It is also why I am so horribly shocked that people would uphold this groups appalling treatment of children, which is abusive and controlling.
And for the record, I was born into this cult, forcibly baptized against my will, made a member without my consent and then punished by losing my family, my friends, my business and my money when I chose to leave (so much for Human Rights Article 9!!). I was also as a youngster admitted to hospital for severe medical problems, which the doctors suspected was from family, social and religious abuse (all well documented in my medical records, which I have copies of here). I was then removed from this hospital AGAINST medical advice, by my parents, who refused to allow me to be seen by the psychiatrist. Again all well documented, including a very damning letter from the pediatrician to my family doctor, outlining his concerns for me and my wellbeing. I have had remaining health problems for the rest of my life due to the lack of medical care I received at this time, all because I was not allowed to make my own decisions, and neither were the medical profession. This is the huge amount of power this group exerts over people; sadly in those days there was no child protection agency, or I would have been safe from them... This is also why I am fighting to have ugly truth of this group/religious cult exposed, so that more children are not abused like I was, as there is NEVER any excuse for that. It is also why I am so horribly shocked that people would uphold this groups appalling treatment of children, which is abusive and controlling. SuzieQutzie
  • Score: 0

6:19pm Thu 31 Jan 13

ManFromMars says...

Suzie,

In comparison to yours, my issues with the Exclusive Brethren pale into utter insignificance. I'm sorry to hear of your abuse and maltreatment at the hands of the EB. I'm sure you'd agree with me that those truly responsible for your awful treatment are the leaders of this cult - men (never 'mere' women) who bark 'jump' and sit back while their minions (your family, my colleagues and many many others) timidly ask 'how high?'. I'm glad there will at last be a serious investigation into this group, their practices and financial affairs and I sincerely hope, for the sake of all its victims, that the truth is forthcoming. Take care :)
Suzie, In comparison to yours, my issues with the Exclusive Brethren pale into utter insignificance. I'm sorry to hear of your abuse and maltreatment at the hands of the EB. I'm sure you'd agree with me that those truly responsible for your awful treatment are the leaders of this cult - men (never 'mere' women) who bark 'jump' and sit back while their minions (your family, my colleagues and many many others) timidly ask 'how high?'. I'm glad there will at last be a serious investigation into this group, their practices and financial affairs and I sincerely hope, for the sake of all its victims, that the truth is forthcoming. Take care :) ManFromMars
  • Score: 0

7:34pm Thu 31 Jan 13

2Timothy says...

Suzie:

Baroness O'Loan said she was also keen to find out whether the disciplinary process of "shutting up", where members of the congregation stopped speaking to a particular individual, was practised on children.

The Brethren have denied this, but many reports say they do practice this on children. Do you have personal or first hand experience of this abusive practice?
Suzie: Baroness O'Loan said she was also keen to find out whether the disciplinary process of "shutting up", where members of the congregation stopped speaking to a particular individual, was practised on children. The Brethren have denied this, but many reports say they do practice this on children. Do you have personal or first hand experience of this abusive practice? 2Timothy
  • Score: 0

12:04pm Fri 1 Feb 13

Knock Knock says...

2Timothy2 - worth a look :)
2Timothy2 - worth a look :) Knock Knock
  • Score: 0

12:57pm Fri 1 Feb 13

2Timothy says...

Yes, well spotted: A less than subtle play on one of their 'proof texts' which is used by the Exclusive Brethren complete with extra words added by Mr Darby that were never there in the original but justify the evil practice of separation to them.
Yes, well spotted: A less than subtle play on one of their 'proof texts' which is used by the Exclusive Brethren complete with extra words added by Mr Darby that were never there in the original but justify the evil practice of separation to them. 2Timothy
  • Score: 0

1:57pm Fri 1 Feb 13

2Timothy says...

Now this school has closed, it's said the children have been distributed to other schools including:

Berkley Bristol
Hindhead Guildford
Stoke Poges Buckinghamshire
Gloucester Gloucester
Maidstone Kent

with journey times of up to 2 - 3 hours each way!

How rich is an organisation that can do this overnight, and did they for one minute consider the wellbeing of the children involved? Is this again child cruelty?
Now this school has closed, it's said the children have been distributed to other schools including: Berkley Bristol Hindhead Guildford Stoke Poges Buckinghamshire Gloucester Gloucester Maidstone Kent with journey times of up to 2 - 3 hours each way! How rich is an organisation that can do this overnight, and did they for one minute consider the wellbeing of the children involved? Is this again child cruelty? 2Timothy
  • Score: 0

6:42pm Fri 1 Feb 13

Knock Knock says...

Doctor Foster comes from Gloucester Gloucester
nice one 2tim2tim :)
Doctor Foster comes from Gloucester Gloucester nice one 2tim2tim :) Knock Knock
  • Score: 0

8:44pm Fri 1 Feb 13

ManFromMars says...

The alternative to shipping their young to other EB schools is sending them to normal schools and having them learn about evil stuff like science and other religions. When your kids' ignorance is at stake, money is no object.
The alternative to shipping their young to other EB schools is sending them to normal schools and having them learn about evil stuff like science and other religions. When your kids' ignorance is at stake, money is no object. ManFromMars
  • Score: 0

9:23am Tue 5 Feb 13

counsellor says...

I've just picked up a few things. There is apparently a brethren church near the Wilton Road in Salisbury so anyone can check this out. The meetings are all based on bible teachings so may not be of general interest. The 'children' referred to were probably 18 year olds and young children have still been seen at the school. On a theological note I have seen two Darby Bibles 1881 & 1890 which are used by all of the brethren factions and all have the same 2 Tim translation in verse 19 based on the Greek apo, ek . This more accurate Darby translation does not have the poetic cadence of the King James version Bible
I've just picked up a few things. There is apparently a brethren church near the Wilton Road in Salisbury so anyone can check this out. The meetings are all based on bible teachings so may not be of general interest. The 'children' referred to were probably 18 year olds and young children have still been seen at the school. On a theological note I have seen two Darby Bibles 1881 & 1890 which are used by all of the brethren factions and all have the same 2 Tim translation in verse 19 based on the Greek apo, ek . This more accurate Darby translation does not have the poetic cadence of the King James version Bible counsellor
  • Score: 0

9:40pm Tue 5 Feb 13

2Timothy says...

For me both the King James and the Darby use arcane and outdated English. A more modern scholarly translation is useful. Here are a few comparisons. All but Darby talk about abstaining/departing
/ turning away from iniquity. It's only Darby and his successors that have mangled this verse to withdraw from *people*. See for yourself (The KJV is there because you refer to it)

2 Timothy 2:19
Darby Translation
19 Yet the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, Lord knows those that are his; and, Let every one who names the name of Lord withdraw from iniquity.

New American Standard Bible
19 Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness.”

New International Version - UK
19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: ‘The Lord knows those who are his,’ and, ‘Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.’

King James Version
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
For me both the King James and the Darby use arcane and outdated English. A more modern scholarly translation is useful. Here are a few comparisons. All but Darby talk about abstaining/departing / turning away from iniquity. It's only Darby and his successors that have mangled this verse to withdraw from *people*. See for yourself (The KJV is there because you refer to it) 2 Timothy 2:19 Darby Translation 19 Yet the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, [The] Lord knows those that are his; and, Let every one who names the name of [the] Lord withdraw from iniquity. New American Standard Bible 19 Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness.” New International Version - UK 19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: ‘The Lord knows those who are his,’ and, ‘Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.’ King James Version 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 2Timothy
  • Score: 1

2:07pm Wed 6 Feb 13

2Timothy says...

Looking at a transliteration, because Greek uses different characters:

o mentoi stereos themelios tou theou estēken echōn tēn sphragida tautēn egnō kurios tous ontas autou kai apostētō apo adikias pas o onomazōn to onoma kuriou

The key word is Ἀποστήτω (Apostētō)
meaning depart from or abstain.

(Google it if you are alowed)
Looking at a transliteration, because Greek uses different characters: o mentoi stereos themelios tou theou estēken echōn tēn sphragida tautēn egnō kurios tous ontas autou kai apostētō apo adikias pas o onomazōn to onoma kuriou The key word is Ἀποστήτω (Apostētō) meaning depart from or abstain. (Google it if you are alowed) 2Timothy
  • Score: 1

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